Hello, and welcome to the Talking Operations Web Conference, LED Signals and the Energy Policy Act.
I will be giving a brief introduction to the web conferencing environment before turning the decision over to Jeff Lynnly, who will be moderator of today's presentation.
Today's presentation is being recorded.
So this seminar will last approximately 90 minutes with 60 minutes indicated for the presenters and 30 minutes for the audience question and answer.
If you think of a question you can type it in chat area on the lower right side of your screen.
Please indicate who your question is directed to unless it's intended for all presenters and panelists.
In addition, please make sure that you commit your questions to all participants rather than just the host or speaker.
Presenters will be be unable to answer your questions during their presentation, but Jeff will use the questions typed in the chat box for the question and answer session in the last 30 minutes of the presentation.
Again today's session is being recorded.
A file containing the audio and the visual portion of the seminar will be posted to the National Transportation Operation Coalition, or NTOC website within the next week.
Due to the size of the file, recorded files are available for viewing and listening purposes only, and cannot be saved to your own computer.
We encourage you to direct others in your office who may not have been able to attend this conference to access the recording.
The PowerPoint presentations used during the seminar will be available on the NTOC site as well.
Attendees will be notified as the availability of the PowerPoints, the recordings, and the closed captioning of this seminar.
At this time, I would like to introduce, Jeff Lynnly, the moderator of today's webcast.
Mr. Lynnly is the director of the Office of Transportation Management and the Federal Highway Administration.
Within FHWA, Mr. Lynnly's office is responsible for traffic signal operation issues.
With that, I will turn things over to Jeff, who will introduce our first speaker.
Thank you, Jennifer.
I wanted to just spend a minute and give you about a two minute background on how this issue came about and how we got to today.
Back in, oh, maybe around Thanksgiving, we at FHWA became aware that there were some provisions in the Energy Policy Act which passed congress last August
at about the same time our own reauthorization passed that had to do with traffic signal installations and seemed to indirectly require conversion of traffic signals to LED technology over a very short period of time.
And we were concerned about the potential impacts of those requirements on both the industry and on the owners and operators of traffic signals.
We have a series of discussions with the department of energy, and with representatives of industry and the transportation community, and over the course of those discussions,
we became a lot less concerned about the overall and immediate impact of these requirements, but continued to be concerned that most folks were unaware that they existed and unaware of the actual and potential impacts.
And we determined that the primary need was to share some more information to the community about what the actual requirements were
and what we thought the impacts might be which is what led us to this webcast and some other outreach that we are in the process of doing.
We held a meeting back in early January, where we decided to do this.
The folks represented in that meeting represented several of the associations that part of the National Transportation Operations Coalition, which helps sponsor this webcast,
including the Institute of Transportation Engineers, A.S.H.T.O., the National Electrical Manufacturer Associations and the American Public Works Association.
So I wanted to say up front, I I appreciate the that's those groups in particular have put out in trying to get the word out on this issue
and I think those groups are probable responsible for a large chunk of the audience that's on the webcast today.
Jennifer has covered the administrative details, so I'm going to get right into the presentation; the presentations we have outlined here are designed to give you some sense of the requirements,
the industry reaction to those requirements, and the transportation communities' perspective on those requirements and we'll kind of do those presentations in that order.
The first speaker is Michael MacCabe.
Michael is a senior engineer in the Department of Energy Building Technologies program where he's responsible for the department's lighting and appliance standard programs.
Michael served in a variety of positions in D.O.E. during a career spanning nearly 34 years.
Recently he served as the deputy Chief of Staff to the Assistant Secretary for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, as the Program Manager for the Billing and Technologies Program.
He assumed his current responsibilities last July.
Throughout his career, Mr. MacCabe's work has focused on energy efficiency and residential and commercial buildings.
For example in 1996, Mr. MacCabe directed the development of the department's appliance standards process improvement rule making and most recently he was responsible for the implementation of the requirements
of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 regarding energy performance test procedures, and energy conservation standards for consumer products in certain commercial and Industrial equipment.
We'll hear more about that work as it relates to today's subject in a second.
Mr. MacCabe holds a bachelor's of science in chemical engineering degree from Catholic University and he will talk today about the Department of Energy's perspective on this issue -- Mike?
Thank you, Jeff.
Good afternoon.
Good morning, everybody.
Jeff said I will give an overview of the program.
I have been involved off and on with the program since 1979, and my presentation will give I a quick overview of the building technologies program, quickly get into the 2005 legislation,
what it requires, what we are doing in response to that, and what we can expect in the future.
The Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy is focused on Friday-ing clean renewable and reliable, affordable, energy technologies to the marketplace.
The focus on this is not just because we are driven by how much energy has been used in the nation, 102 quads total and the focus on the building sector is because today 40 quads
or roughly 40% of all the energy that's used in the country is used by the building sectors, whether it's residential buildings, commercial buildings, and this is a significant growth in the last 25 years.
So there's been a great deal of emphasis lately within the department and in the legislation on the building structure to reduce the growth and the size of the energy use in the building sector.
The building technologies program responds to our overall guidance as a long-term research goal of net zero energy buildings by the year 2025.
That's a building during the course of a year of noncommercial or residential that will reduce as much energy as it will consume during the course of the year.
Buildings will system be connected to the grid, but at some point, they will be putting energy into the grid, and other points they will be taking it out.
Our building technologies program is really divided into two aspects.
Research, which is the focus of the net zero energy building goal, and regulations, the regulatory programs are responding to a variety of legislative requirements,
which direct us to develop test procedures and energy conservation standards for certain consumer products, as household products such as furnaces and central air conditioners, refrigerators and commercial and Industrial equipment.
For the first, you know, couple of slides, I haven't talked about street lighting, traffic control lighting at all, which are -- they are not in buildings, typically.
They are out on the highways and the like.
We have tried to capture within the department all of the energy used within the nation, divide it up into different sectors, and this street lighting,
traffic control lighting, all of the lighting that is done in this country is a responsibility as far as research and regulatory activities of the building technologies program.
So our research program, for example, has been very active, one of their principal focuses is on solid state lighting research, principally to bring white light into the marketplace.
We are seeing some of those products already.
And the regulatory program and the lighting area, we have standards for fluorescent lamp ballasts and they are getting into traffic control lighting.
I have a macro perspective, it's mentioned 102 squad quads of energy that's being used annually in the country.
Electricity production for all uses represents roughly 38 quads or about 40% of all the nation's energy that is used is electricity.
And as you look down, lighting, energy, consumption is 8% of all the energy that is used in this country, whether or not it's residential lighting,
commercial, industrial, or highway lighting represented 8% of the energy or roughly one-fifth of the electricity that is generated in this country goes into lighting.
For us, lighting is a significant issue.
Both with regards to emissions, emissions reduction but also for us to reach our net zero energy goal over the next decade or so,
lighting, residential, commercial, industrial, and highway lightings will become a larger and larger focus of our activities.
It's our goal and expectation that the 22% of electricity going into lighting can, in the next, 15, 25 years be cut in half.
To focus getting into the 2005 legislation as Jeff has indicated or as he stated, on August 8, 2005, the Energy Policy Act of 2005 was passed by Congress and signed by the President.
That piece of legislation has requirements with regards to energy efficiency, energy production, tax credits, nuclear energy, fossil energy, coal use,
coal research but a very small part of it deals with energy efficiency in the commercial residential and Industrial building sector and highway lighting.
Specifically, section 135 includes traffic signals, pedestrian modules.
The legislation broken down into two subparts one on test procedures, and it directs us as to what the test procedures are to be based on.
And they are based on I.T.E. specifications that are referenced in the current EPA Energy Star requirements for traffic signals.
The legislation also establishes standards.
The law is very clear in this regard.
It's very different than much law, where most legislation directs an agency to come up with regulations and in this case, the act specifically said,
here's what the test procedures should have been based on and here are what the standards are to be.
Under the test procedures -- well, I mentioned the legislation says the test procedures are to be based on I.T.E. specifications.
There are a number of questions that we believe need to be answered before we can establish the regulations, setting the test procedures.
But we are preparing a notice of proposed rule making regarding test procedures and also manufacturer and certification compliance issues.
Basically telling the manufacturers how they are to test, how they are to report to the department of energy.
This test procedure rule is going to be built on the test procedures that are specified in the legislation.
We expect the notice of proposed rule making to be published in the "Federal Register" later this year, and late spring, early summer.
And the audience for the most part for that rule making is going to be manufacturers because we regulate the manufacturers of equipment.
We don't regulate the consumer of the equipment.
We don't regulate the retailer or the seller of the equipment.
Our regulations and the lighting and the appliance standard program deal with the manufacturer and the import of the products.
So we have been, for example, talking to the manufacturers trade association, in our effort to develop this notice of proposed rule making.
Our regulations for the most part build on the fact that there is competition out in the marketplace.
There's a lot of it.
Information in the marketplace, industry, trade associations, in many cases, for many of the products that we regulate, published consumer directories listing products.
Those directories may be intended for a residential consumer, or a commercial consumer.
There are a lot of programs in place that we rely on and as a result, our regulations tend to build on those programs and are based on manufacturer, self-testing and reporting to the D.O.E.
The standards, as I mentioned are clearly laid out in the legislation.
The table showing this are the requirements that we adopted in the final bill that we published back in October of 2005.
These are the same levels that are in the EPA Energy Star guidelines.
They deal with the red balls, both 12 and 8-inch, red arrows, and the question mark there, I guess in the transfer from the one form to the other, it's 12-inch and 8-inch, not 12 -- I'm not certain what the metrics are.
Also green balls and arrows.
And those the widest requirement, both maximum and nominal wattages were those levels that the manufacturers were required to meet in order to qualify for the Energy Star.
So essentially the Energy Star product prior to January 1, 2006 is now going to be the norm of what is going to be sold.
The legislation as such does require Energy Star to be the standard of what is going to be manufactured and imported as of January 1 of this year.
There's been questions as far as what do the standards really mean?
As Jeff has mentioned they took effect January 1 of 2006.
They apply to the manufacturer of products.
The import of products.
So as of January 1, any domestic manufacturer who produces a traffic signal module has to meet the standard levels that are in the previous slide if it is a red ball, red arrow, green ball, green arrow.
The product is imported.
It has to be, on January 1 or later, has to meet the standards, regardless of the date that that product was manufactured.
So if a product is manufactured offshore, I would say on December 15th, and it was an incandescent traffic signal module, and was exported to the U.S., cleared customs, got to customs on January 31st,
it would have been refused, because for the purpose of this program, the date it's imported is defined to be the date of manufacturer.
Without regards to when the manufacturer actually produced the product.
It treats the domestically manufactured products a little bit different than foreign manufactured products.
Foreign manufactured products, the date of import is considered the date of manufacturer.
For U.S. Manufactured products, the date that it was manufactured is the date of manufacturer.
Again, it applies to manufacturers.
It's not a retail requirement.
It's not an installer's requirement.
It's not a requirement for state or local transit authorities, traffic highway departments of it's a manufacturer requirement.
As the previous slide showed, it is for red and green balls and arrows.
It does not apply to amber.
There's also provisions in the legislation that provide exception to California to keep their standards for pedestrian modules.
It applies to the manufacturing products.
So if the county had product in their warehouse that was manufactured before the effective date, they can install it tomorrow.
They can install it a year from now.
If a county or a state highway department is going out to repair an existing traffic signal and needs to put in a new lens, or a new bulb be,
they can do that because this, again, is for the manufacturer of modules, not the repair, not the servicing of modules.
It also does not require existing product to be replaced or retrofitted.
It's a manufacturer requirement.
It requires the future, the legislation sets the standards for the red and the green.
While we have the authority to go beyond that, we are not planning any further performance standards at this point in time.
We have a number of other rule makings that we have on our plate.
We've got 22 rule makings that we have scheduled out for the next five years, and amber bulbs, for example, aren't on the list.
The amount of energy they use because they are short duty cycle.
I would not expect that they would meet the requirements to be considered any time soon, if at all.
So at this point in time, we are not looking.
We do not plan any updates to the EPAs 2005 standards for the modules.
That is we are not looking to increase the stringency is.
We are not looking at adopting performance standards for other product categories such as the amber balls or lane controls.
I understand, for example, that the I.T.E. specifications have been recently updated in the 2005 version that does deal with amber.
We are not planning on picking up those procedures.
That test procedure rule making, we mentioned while we are aware that the 2005 updates exist and they do affect some of the products, we are looking in the rule making to adopt test procedures.
We will look at the 2005 version to see what improvements there are there that we can incorporate by reference, and move the '85 version of the I.T.E.
Standards that are a starting point, but it's to look at the I.T.E. stand as, the '85 version, with regard to how manufacturers will test the rate of their products.
Beyond that, we expect there will be comments, issues made in the rule making that we will be ab dressing during that time frame,
both in the comment of the rules as well as discussion of the public meeting, which will probably be late in the summer of this year.
That's the general overview.
I will pass it back to Jeff.
Okay.
Thank you, Michael.
You guys, of course, can't see the room that we are operating in, nor can you see how bad my eyes are, but I can tell that there have been a number of questions raised in the chat box that we will get to.
I can't read them.
That's the eye part but we will get to those at the end of the presentation.
Our next speaker is Tim O'Leary.
Tim is the president of Keota Traffic Corporation which comprises several intersection control and traffic signal companies, including Peak Traffic, U.S. Traffic, and National Signal.
Tim joined Peak in 2001, as Executive Vice President of Operations, responsible for global operations.
Peak's seven manufacturer facilities around the world.
In this capacity, Tim oversaw the coordination of several facilities in Peak's Florida Global Headquarters.
2002, he was promoted to Executive Vice President for the Americas, which expanded his role to include all sales, engineering, finance, and P&L responsibility for North American operations.
In December of 2002, Keota Corporation acquired Peak Traffic Americas.
Keota found it to be an excellent fit to expand into the intelligent transportation system industry, and in April 2004, Tim was promoted to responsibility for a second company, as the president of U.S. Traffic.
Prior to joining Peak, Tim was general manager of Husky Injection Molding Plastics in Milton, Vermont.
He held positions of increasing responsibility at Husky from 1998, until 2001.
Tim has held manufacturing and operations management positions in several companies throughout his career, including General Dynamic, Baxter Healthcare and United Technologies.
Tim is a voting member of the Advanced Transportation Controller Joint Committee, and Vice chair of NEMA, and past director of United Way in Vermont and a past president of the National Management Association.
And Tim is going to give us the industry perspective on requirements that Michael just summarized -- Tim?
Good morning, thank you, Jeff.
Good morning to all the participants.
I see we have quite a few folks in, in this topic.
I will try to cover the NEMA manufacturer perspective and, again, only speaking for one company but a general assessment of what we see in the marketplace which I think is consistent with what our other manufacturers are seeing.
If we look at the chart that's brought up, it is pretty obvious over the past few years, that the growth of LED technology in signal and pedestrian modules have continued to grow for our company.
The most recent spike has obviously been in the last year, where it jumped just about 20% of our total sales volume as a percentage of all products in the signal and pedestrian modules categories.
The prior jump was from 2001 to 2002, where we saw a very big spike but we think that's a reflection of the change in our business than actual move in the legislation,
but we are clearly seeing the growth of LEDs becoming a major part of customer demand.
And just to give a little bit of background as we talk through this by customers, our combined traffic companies sell two primarily D.O.T.S and municipalities, both direct or through distribution.
So a lot of our feedback may not be direct from the municipalities but from what we are seeing our distributors stocking orders for.
Conversely, our next slide shows the incandescent signal volume assume decline over the same period of time.
It's certainly reciprocal of the growth in LEDs but we've had to change our business model, production requirements and ordering policies to anticipate a reduction in incandescent signals
and obviously with the 1/1/2006 legislation, we were seeing a significant demand for incandescent as they move to LEDs in compliance with the legislation.
A couple of the trends that we see and by identified by the manufacturer, I obviously refer primarily to our own experience, Keota Traffic.
Clearly we have seen a continued shift to LEDs as customers and distributors have followed the legislation that's recently been enacted.
We are seeing and hearing that the primary orders we are getting for incandescent products have repaired to existing orders
and those communities that have not made the complete shift to the new technology, but clearly we are building a business around inventory at the barest levels for incandescent bulbs.
So looking in the rear-view mirror for our sale volume for incandescent and neon is not a good business model.
We are moving more and more towards keeping the barest level as we see more and more communities shifting over.
We expect to see more of U.S. and international municipalities following the same standards for conformity to the MUTCD, as well as to the Energy Star
and particular sections that we are very closely following, such as section 911 Energy Efficiency and 912, the Lighting Initiatives.
But clearly the products as Michael spoke to, that we are bringing in, we are making sure that the Energy Star 1.1, and this is the focus of our product development and our new build technologies.
The biggest trends that we have seen in the past year would be primarily the southeastern U.S.A., obviously, the impact of hurricanes
and tornadoes in that area have caused many communities due to damage replace in wholesale a number of their older signals and those communities we are seeing are coming out with new LED requirement
and when previously they would have been purchasing incandescent, they have taken this opportunity to move forward with the legislation and moved to more of the LED technologies.
If we look at what we have done from analysis on average cost of capital to signal, I noticed earlier some questions regarding government support for making the move.
We are not seeing tremendous amount of funding to support this move; however, we are seeing many communities, larger cities in the U.S.,
the top ten cities in the U.S. doing their own cost of capital analysis to make the financial case for converting from incandescent to LED technology
and certainly the initial investment is higher than incandescent, however, from a recurring energy expense as previously demonstrated in Michael's slide,
they show about a one-fifth cost of operation, both in total energy and in power for supporting the change to LEDs.
A couple of comparisons that we have done on one of our component products would be the hand man signal modules.
This chart obviously gives you a rough comparison of the annual cost per intersection with the transformer neon, incandescent,
running in the clearly hundreds of dollars and LED, even with power switching, running at $86 on an annualized cost.
Rough numbers but it gives you directionally the benefits of moving over to LED technology.
A number of things that we also see as a technology move which has impacted our product trend.
A number of cities are increasing popularity of the LED Pedestrian signals, which involve the countdown pedestrian modules and these, as you can see from the photo show the timing as people cross into the intersection,
you have seconds left, you have 8 seconds left, 4 seconds and it gives them a timing as opposed to a flashing hand.
These are becoming extremely popular, especially with the aging or the graying of the baby boomers.
We see that these are becoming more and more pop lar and are only made possible through the transition to LED technology,
due to the power output and some of the visibility issues that LEDs allow for us that incandescents do not provide for.
So we have an energy efficiency safety component and clearly an improved product trend that we are seeing the communities take on.
Another big trend that we see are the moving of communities to uninterruptible power supply or battery backups for intersections and obviously these are valuable in that they are made with LED technology,
they require less battery to operate that intersection for four, six, eight hours depending on the battery configuration however, these units are only valuable to the city as they move to LED technology,
because the power consumption as shown in the previous chart for incandescent for neon and both signals and pedestrian modules would be too strong or draw too much power to allow for effective battery backup for extended periods of time.
So it also affects traffic control as we see the move towards LED technology.
So in summary, a couple of the major issues that manufacturers see in the specifications and the legislation are primarily a move and a support for safety of the intersections, through LED technology,
and in some cases greater visibility but certainly longer operation and secondly long-term energy costs in complying with the legislation.
We also have seen a couple of detailed points where LEDs tend to run into a gradual lumens decrease whereas a single incandescent bulb be could have a sunlight failure,
potentially impairing decision making or the driver's inability to read the signals.
There's a degradation or in the event you would lose any of the diodes or a string of diodes have you reduced risk, than if a single bulb burnout, which it be red, amber or green.
The longer life of LEDs, tends to reduce safety release for city workers and maintenance workers and subcontractors,
so the roughly five-year length that we are seeing on LEDs certainly requires less on street maintenance for them and it enhances energy savings, cost saving for maintenance and safety benefit for the user.
And clearly the uninterruptible power supply mode during emergency situations makes it almost critical or required to use LEDs, which are significantly month energy efficient to support these systems.
That's the summary of my formal comments.
And we would be open to any questions as we go through the remainder of the presentation.
Thank you.
Okay, thank you, Tim.
You know, I see that there are a number of questions that we will get to at the close of the presentation.
Our last presenter is Emil Wolanin.
He's the Chief of Traffic Engineering and Operations for Montgomery County, Maryland Department of Public Works and Such.
He's been with Montgomery County since 1991, and in this role, he's the County's Chief Traffic Engineer and is responsible for all aspects of traffic control devices, including maintenance operations and system management.
He previously was Manager of the County's Advanced Transportation Management Systems program
overseeing all transportation management, including operation of its internationally recognized transportation management -- previously he spent eight years with a consulting engineering firm.
He received a bachelor of science degree in civil engineering from Penn State.
Mr. Wolanin is an active I.T.E. member, currently serves on the Steering Committee of the National Transportation Operations Coalition
and is on the Executive Leadership group of the Cap Win program here in the D.C. area and is a member of Public Technology Incorporated Urban Consortium Transportation Council.
He's past chair of the Washington Metropolitan Council of Governmental regional I.T.S., and served for I.T.S. Maryland and served as a technical advisory committee in the IDEA program.
Emil's presentation will focus on the impact to the transportation community, the owners and the operators of traffic signals, the impacts of the energy act provision on that audience -- Emil?
Thank you, Jeff.
And I guess looking over Jennifer had shared with us a copy of the registrants for today's panel or Webinar and I noticed about half of the participants seem to be be state and local D.O.T.S.
So I think that's a fair share of owner/operators out there.
I guess one of the questions I have for many of you who are out there, are your agencies, those that have LED programs,
are in the works of getting one up and running or in the midst of putting one in place or still trying to get one off the ground?
As we get to the questions, from the state and locals, I would like to hear a little bit of that and help flavor the perspective towards that a little bit.
The first thing I wanted to do is really give you all a perspective of the LED Initiative that we have here in Montgomery County.
As Jeff indicated, we're in Montgomery County, Maryland.
We are the county that's just to the north and the west of Washington, D.C.
So we border the district on the northwest boundary.
Here in the county, we have about 750 total signalized intersections that we maintain.
We have kind of a unique relationship with the state of Maryland that we in essence maintain all the traffic signals that they own within the county.
Those are all hooked up to a central computerized signal system but about one-third of those 250 are what we own and maintain.
The other 500 or so are the state-owned signals that, again, I maintain.
Some of which I may energy for, some of which they pay energy for.
That all has to do with who owns what roadways coming.
And we could probably spend a half hour trying to explain that to everyone because I still don't understand it.
We are converting our red and green balls over to LEDs.
We made a decision early on as we were considering financing options and everything that we would do a five-year program and do one-fifth of those just 250 intersections, as I mentioned.
One-fifth per year.
The reason we chose that and did it on a five-year cycle, the reason we did it is to avoid the roller coaster effect of going out and doing 250
or maybe 125 intersections in one year, and do something next year and then have three years of nothing.
And then come back in year six and start all over again with life cycle replacements.
For manufacture as you all know, the local state DOT, you want to try to flat line your funding so it's not something that you are fighting for from year-to-year, that's how it works in our perspective.
We are about 40% complete since we have done the first two years of the program.
We have not -- sorry, as I continue on here.
Our program does not include yellows, arrows being walks and don't walks.
Those were conscious decisions for a variety of reasons.
The first on yellows we made based on the duty cycle and the cost effectiveness that it just wasn't worth while to look at that.
I guess also issues relating to compliance, what specifications, there was really nothing on the market that met the specs at that time.
The walks and the don't walks, we actually have now a separate program where we are implementing countdown signals or the countdown pedestrian signals.
When we were first considering our LED Initiative, the countdowns were not part of the MUTCD at that point.
We were working on a pilot so we decided to put that aside.
We were one of those skeptics, as to how those countdowns would work.
We have since become big proponents of them.
We are now at about an element where we are -- I would say 20% of those 250 signals have a countdown indications and, you know, they are very popular thing amongst the residents of our county.
The initiative is solely County funded.
We did not receive any type of energy credits or special grants.
We are not in any type of financing arrangement with a private corporation.
The way our budget component is structured, I get money in my operating budget that really pays for the capital deployment and the savings are really realized in a separate non-departmental being for utilities.
I have no control over that, because it's subject to the market but I'm responsible to sort of remain within my means for that operating budget.
So, again, the original dollar amounts were built based on what we could accomplish every year and also affordability,
which as many of you in the local and state D.O.T.s, know it's how you budget, not what you need but based on what you can afford.
We are now looking, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of those state-owned intersections, originally we made the decision and we kind of went back
and forth with the state, and said, you know, we would look for you guys to consider putting LEDs out there.
The state wasn't finished really with their testing and their considerations at the time and they were kind of holding off.
We have come around now to the point that says even though they own them, we are at the point where we are willing to spend county money because we are the ones paying the energy.
So that was one of the hang-ups before, why should the state spend the capital costs to put in LEDs when I was going to be the one seeing savings at the county level and the energy consumption.
We need to work through that and we kind of come up with a program that works for both of to us incorporate those in.
For those of you that are not really into the LED
Realm as of yet, you know, as we went through this, a lot of questions came about and said, well, why?
It seems like a no-brainer and as you break it down, it really boils down to two things which is the cost and the maintenance elements.
You know, again, if you are just looking to get a program off the ground, and I'm not very versed on the specifications for the LEDs, so bear with me on that, but my understanding is it's creating for a more robust LED
Unit and what I think that translates to is I'm hearing from some of our distributors and salespeople that that will cause the LED
Units to probably go up a little bit more for what we have seen in the last couple of years maybe on the magnitude of 15% higher unit cost, so if you are collecting that information, based on what you can get on the market right now,
it's something that you want to consider is maybe you need to account or pad the numbers a little bit because those numbers will be a little bit higher, until you get more market penetration with the newer models.
A lot of decisions we make in terms of whether to go to LEDs comes down to a cash flow decision for the D.O.T.S.
It's that up front capital cost versus the life cycle.
We had absolutely no problem convincing our decision makers that over the long haul, this was a good decision.
Unfortunately, when we fried to get it off the ground, it was some very lean budget years and we are being pressured, quite frankly to reduce our overall operating budget, so it's hard to get without giving up other program areas,
it's hard to kind of exchange money and say, well, I would rather do LEDs and let the bushes go and cover all the stop signs.
Those are the type of decisions we have to make.
I'm quite frankly not a big proponent of leasing.
I know some of the other jurisdictions in this area have gotten into that arrangement.
We have made a decision, why give up that energy savings to inbound else.
We'll reap it and then try to blend it back into our other transportation programs.
From a maintenance perspective, you know, really the life cycle time frame, we picked five years.
I'm not sure what some of the warranty elements are right now, but we figured let's start off conservative.
Maybe it is six, seven years but we will go with five and see how this first cycle goes through and make some determinations then if we need to contract or expand the program, based on time.
That last bullet there, I guess I had an incomplete thought as I was preparing my presentation.
Again I talked about not going LEDs all at once.
We went on a percentage per year and created a measured program over that five-year period.
Now, in terms of the Energy Policy Act, I was one of the local representatives or signal owner/operator representatives that attended the initial meeting with the Department of Energy, some others in the D.C. area.
You know, clearly the main thing that I got out of that is that the policy act, the intent is to facilitate the deployment of LEDs.
It's not forcing it but it's trying to set the stage with the standards and the testing requirements that LEDs -- the direction that the industry is going.
Tim's slides confirmed that from a supply and demand perspective.
I think the demand is out there and my question to those would have not gotten a program off, what's holding you back?
Is it the finances?
The resources?
I think that's the kind of thing that the department of energy and FHWA need to understand to kind of help get that word out to the decision makers of how this legislation is going to affect that
and how we can help use it to leverage the further deployment of LEDs.
You heard Michael say earlier that the act is really targeted to the manufacturing of the units not the use of the units.
So really from a local state D.O.T. perspective, we don't manufacturer anything.
We buy what's on the market.
So, you know, one question is, how does this really affect us?
If I continue to buy parts out there, I have to buy lens reflectors to maintain yellow in the light and they seem like they are going to be available.
So what we really came down to, I think the consensus of that group, all of us went in a little skeptical and I think we all came out and said, you know,
this doesn't seem to be a major concern to any of us that life will go on as it is, and, you know, maybe this will just facilitate for the ones that haven't gotten off the program to kind of get moving.
I see all the questions everybody kind of all right notes that the technical requirements are covered by Energy Star and the specifications.
So what do we really know here?
Well, number one, there are really no significant technical issues in terms of the act itself, but, again, I see from the questions the load issue,
the amber issues but for those of you in the state and local D.O.T.s, this really doesn't bring any technical challenges to us, I think, at this point.
All of our existing in-place equipment is not an issue.
There's nothing about this that changes that.
It doesn't force or mandate us to convert to LEDs.
It doesn't force us to get rid of our stocks that are sitting in our warehouses ready to go on the street, and start going to LEDs.
Again, tease become, I say again, it becomes, I say the normal course of business in your jurisdiction.
Incandescent items are not covered by the legislation.
I think that's one element that we will talk about before.
Tim mentioned there seems to be supply.
One vendor I talked to is when industry created what was a two-year supply, with the transition to LEDs by jurisdiction, that two-year supply has kind of on its own become maybe a five or six year supply,
and it continues to extend out because that supply just seems like it will last longer and longer as more people are just going to LEDs up front.
Now, the main thing that kind of stumped me in the early stages is the legislation defines a signal module or an LED Signal module which is a self-contained item,
whereas only incandescent side, really what is referred to a sum of parts a reflector, a bulb and a lens.
Quite frankly, I can probably go out and buy those pieces myself, buy a signal head, which we do, and assemble them ourselves.
Michael and I had the conversation earlier in this process, well, does that make the local government now the manufacturer, because we are assembling those parts and putting it together ourselves?
And maybe that's something Michael can touch on a limb bit more.
Clearly we think we are going to be able to buy the parts to maintain -- again, this doesn't change that.
It really comes down to if you have initiatives in place, does this cause any changes to that initiative?
It doesn't appear to; although the yellow issue at some point, when they are brought into the standards, into the legislation, that duty cycle cost effectiveness issue will probably be an irrelevant argument at that point.
This does not appear, by any means to be an unfunded mandate, at least that's my perspective and the others that were at the earlier meetings and our subsequent conversations.
You don't see this having any immediate kind of cause for alarm for to us run out and start spending different kinds of money or changing the way we are going about this.
I think these are just a wrap-up of the points that I had already thrown out there, the transition is occurring, and I think this legislation action will just facilitate it more
and hopefully provide those that are not in the LED Business yet to maybe use this to facilitate with their decision makers that the market is going that direction and we need to look at getting on board.
Michael also talked about the rule making process.
A lot of the details and some of these questions that we still have will be be covered as part of that rule making process.
Clearly we know that parts are not an issue.
You know, I mentioned there's no cause for alarm and the yellow duty cycle is no longer an argument from our perspective.
I know this is a jump up.
But these are direct links.
They are not hyperlinks from this presentation but this they are up there for a while, it will at least provide the specific pages that you can go to of the 555 page bill
and the specifics of the Energy Star program, which are very easily accessible.
With that, I will turn it back over to you, Jeff, and take it from there.
Okay, thank you, Emil.
I was in the process of going back through some of the questions that have been posted and I would encourage you to continue to do that.
The way we'll handle the Q&A period, I will moderate to the participants some of your questions.
I note as I go back through here, I think some of them are being answered by other participants on the webcast, which is great, but let me pose a few to the panelists
and if we successfully answer all the relevant questions that have been posted, we'll open up the phones to additional questions as well.
Michael, there were several here.
The first one I noticed was the unit of measurement that you spoke to before, which the question posed here is a quad.
I heard you say quad without the quadrillion btus.
The other question was does your office have the sense of total electricity consumption in the transportation sector?
Is that something that you guys have gotten into?
I don't think we do have it, but it's not up on our website.
We do have what we refer to as our buildings energy data book that we keep up on our website, which is www.buildings.gov.
We do have energy use information by energy type, by residential, commercial, we don't have the transportation on that, but we'll see if we have anything because clearly it was used in developing the totals.
And then I guess the other -- there are several questions here -- I could interpret the questions as a simple: why wasn't amber included?
What was the reasoning behind that?
I think you got into that a little bit and then there's actually a few questions that question whether amber should be included or actually is included the way these individuals are interpreting the legislation.
Could you talk through that issue again as well?
The legislation and our October 2005 final bill define traffic signal modules and they are the parts we don't get into the color of the lens in our definition.
So when you look at the legislation, clearly amber could be covered, and we would view it as though we have the authority to extend the program to include amber; however,
section 135 directs us to the Energy Star requirements version 1.1 that was in effect at that time, and says that the standards are those that are in the Energy Star requirements.
The Energy Star clearly lays out what is covered, and what the standards are and those product categories, which are on my side so they were the red and the green balls and arrows.
Energy Star does not include amber, so that's the reason why we view that they are not covered at this point in time.
Give them the rule making authority that we have, but the backlog of rule makings that we have, I don't expect that we would ever get the amber, but certainly amber are not planned for at this point in time.
Okay, there was another specific question about -- and I think I know the answer to this, about railroad flashing gate crossing signals, whether they were included.
And I think the root of that question is they use flashing red ball indications.
Let me go back to the previous question just because there might be one question that will come up about that and I will answer that.
Some may wonder, well, what if Energy Star changes their specs as a result of the 2005 version of the I.T.E.
Standards and that they include amber bulbs in the Energy Star sometime in the future.
If Energy Star makes such a change, it will not have any impact on the standards.
We would have to go through a rule making.
We would add product categories or to change the standard requirements.
I would not be at all surprised if EPA, carrying out their Energy Star requirements would be considering changing both the level for Energy Star for red and green,
but also adding amber, and that voluntary program can operate very effectively with the regulatory program in place at the same time and be allowed to do that.
Getting back to the question with regards to signal crossings, I don't know whether or not those signal crossings would call under the definition of traffic signal modules.
The diameter of the ball would be, whether or not it would be 12-inch or the 8-inch is covered and if they are not of that size, first they wouldn't be covered.
But then given that our understanding that the legislation was intended for highway traffic control, not railroad.
So I suspect that this would be staff view, not staff department position, that they would been included.
Yeah, I would have guessed the way that all the language kind of links together in the statute that it was not intended that they be covered, but I think you could probably make an interpretation that the other way as well.
It's an interesting question.
Tim, there's a number of questions I know you can see as a participant relative to the question of compatibility of controllers and load switches and lots of stuff that I'm not smart enough to understand or talk about.
Do you have any comments on any of those issues that have been posted?
I do.
Basically I read a couple of them.
Addressing controller standards which additionally is in the process of doing with joint committees with controller standards.
We have not seen any significant issues with LED
Traffic modules not operating with any of the existing controllers or load switches that are available today in the marketplace.
So while I certainly understand the question regarding is nema going to address these in the controller standard that is the in the process of being done for the new standards to develop work controllers
but as far as compatibility with existing controllers and load switches, I'm not aware of any significant issues in making the transition to LED technology.
And, in fact, some of the answers reflect that most of the modern load switches, except LED And those are the major fuses that would be an impact, with the lower energy requirement.
There's ample capacity to switch to LEDs.
Okay.
Another question for you, Tim, and actually for Emil as well, I suppose.
I notice another thread here relative to the snow question, which came up kind of pretty early in my contact with this issue
and that was that the LED modules don't produce enough heat to melt snow on the signal head itself, as the traditional incandescent installation.
The lens stays pretty hot so any snow that blows in there during a snowstorm will melt pretty quickly and the LEDs do not generate enough heat to do that.
I heard that issue before but I can't reconcile that with all the cold weather climates that are converting large number of signals to LEDs.
So it seems that folks have either figured out some way around that issue on -- or haven't run into it or I don't know.
I don't know if you have any reaction to that issue.
I will take it.
This is Tim O'Leary.
We have seen some claims on that.
There's a couple of things that affect that.
One, you have a lens cover, if you will, or a visor that goes over all three sections of the senate head in any of the four directions or whatever direction the LEDs is facing.
That takes some of the impact from the snow so it doesn't affect every lens.
The other issue you have is particularly on a four-way directional signal, you will primarily have wind affecting one or two at the most.
Clearly you will have that issue and I notice there's some feedback from Montana and also from Maryland that high wind and heavy snow will cause the packing in there.
We have heard, anecdotally that that is an issue and certainly has been some of the reasons that some folks that people do not make the conversion, but to the best of my knowledge,
we do not have a resolution for that, nor have we seen it as significant enough of an issue that communities are not making the transition to LED technology.
And I will echo what Tim talked about there.
This is Emil from Montgomery County.
Diane, I saw the message came from you, our next door neighbor here in Maryland.
That's not really been an issue.
I don't think we had a major snow event, a long lasting snow event at least here in the D.C. area that came to the forefront.
On the other hand or maybe really what we are experiencing here is when the snowplow operators go down the roads with their beds up, they are knocking the signal heads around like they usually do and knocking the snow off.
Maybe that's a positive once.
The other element or maybe the flip side of this, we are noticing those modules or the lenses are not getting as dirty.
The soot and just the dirt is not getting baked on the lenses so just the, you know, the simple splash of rain does a better job of keeping them clear and more visible.
It's a little bit of a double edged sword as it's good in one sense and not good in the other sense.
There were a couple of questions supposed kind of back at the beginning of the webcast relative to funding, and I'm actually going to address that issue for a second
but then I will ask the panelists if they have any experience or knowledge of any innovative funding sources used to help fund conversion.
From a federal standpoint, there aren't any special funding sources that I know of that would help to facilitate conversion of traffic signals from incandescent to LED technology.
We have heard some kind of interesting stories, one that I will pass along and innovative things that people have done.
One of the issues that's been raised to our attention that really is a problem, the way that the public agencies tend to work is that, you know if you go to your city council or whoever and say,
well, I want, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars to do this conversion, and trust me, next year, it will save a lot of money on our utility bill and, oh, by the way I need that money in my budget this year
and the utility bill is paid for somewhere else in the city's budget, and those efforts tend to either be unsuccessful or pretty complicated to pull off.
There was a state, and I think it was Kentucky, but I wouldn't swear to that, where the anecdote I had heard was that they cut a deal with their electricity provider, their electric company, if you will, that basically said,
you know, if you will loan us the money that we need to convert our signals to LED signals, the capital costs, we'll do that and we'll continue to pay our electric bill at the level we have been paying it,
even though it's going to be cheaper, as soon as we do this conversion.
We'll continue to pay our electric bill at that level until we have paid you back all the money you loaned us, plus interest.
And in essence, what that did was there was no capital costs to the jurisdiction, and their electric bill went down but it went down later.
And so the all of the costs in the process was kind of transparent to the budget folks and the accountants at the city level or the state for this case, and they seem to have had a really good experience.
Any of the other three presenters, anything innovative that you have heard in the funding, how to make this happen from a funding standpoint?
This is Michael MacCabe.
The department doesn't have any funding for conversion; however, the Kentucky example that you described Jeff, is very similar to the one that we have been working with federal agencies.
The federal government uses more energy than any other single consumer in the nation, both military housing, military bases, the civilian agencies and the like.
And we have developed, in our federal energy management program sharing energy performance savings contracts, which basically is as described in the Kentucky example
we are working with the local utility energy service provider or others where they would pay for the installation of the energy conservation feature, whether it's a building retrofit, lighting what have you.
And then we would share the savings and the utility bills and after the period of the contract, the agency would then get to keep all of the savings.
That's becoming more and more popular within the federal sector.
But it's one that's very difficult to implement because you need to know how much energy is being used by the building, by the light fixture, what have you, in order to work out the details of the contract.
Tim or Emil, anything to add?
Jeff, this is Emil.
When we were going through our original proposal, trying to frame out the program, we had checked around a variety of things.
There didn't seem to be to be here at least in the metro D.C. area, or with our utility provider, we deal with three different utility providers here in the county.
Opportunities for grants or anything like that, and it seemed like the amount of time and energy, resources that it would take to secure those in terms of what we were talking for our program is just not worth it.
We have explored trying to do the initial program as a bond-funded program, and that was kind of ruled against because it didn't last as long as the bonds to pay off the bonds in it.
That's a large part of how we make decisions of whether bonds will be used or not.
We looked at creating a special fund, a little bit of savings from year one that would then create a dedicated fund for LEDs and that would almost be kind of a revolving effort that the savings would be the funding source.
And really what we came down to was just a freeing up of other monies in the operating budget by reallocating nearly $200,000 a year to our operating budget but I don't think there's anything magic about that.
Yeah, we had kicked around some of those things and I think what we tried to do here as ourselves is, you know, we're the traffic engineers.
We will build a program and try to leave the financing to the bean counters and budget types out there.
This is Tim.
As a manufacturer, we did not participate in any of the funding for many of the cities.
Anecdotally, I know many of the large cities are doing the funding internally and working either through the direction of, in the case of California, particularly, the direction of the California Energy Commission,
which requires the cities to move to LED technology, and at the same time, smaller communities and large cities that are mostly doing the funding internally.
Some are trying to tie it in to homeland security there.
May be funds available for many as they link the need to move to LED technology to homeland security through the installation of uninterruptible power supplies or backup power systems as part of their intersection control.
It's evacuating cities or that type of requirement.
So those are two primarily methods, the city doing the cost justification and two, tying it into homeland security funding that's available through the cities for egress and evacuation plan.
Jeff, I know, you know, we haven't talked a lot, but I haven't necessarily explored, it I think there's issues with it which is the finance option
where there are companies out there where you practically turn over your energy budget to them.
They will buy all the LEDs, install and maintain them over x-number of years and basically they are into an arrangement with the jurisdiction.
I still seem to get hung up on what I believe is the fatal flaw of that which is at the end of the five year period when these units are getting to the point where maybe they are not meeting specs
or out of warranty anymore, that company goes away and you the jurisdiction you need to do something.
You have LEDs that are at the end of their life cycle and you have to invest or enter into a new contract to do that.
That didn't seem to be a practice for us.
We thought we could actually achieve and reinvest that energy savings into other things.
And it seems to me had a some of the smaller jurisdictions are going with the financing option.
Okay.
Question that was posed a couple of different aspects of a similar question on be can the suppliers continue to provide or can a municipality continue to buy incandescent signals
and then it branches into a replacement parts for an existing signal.
And I will put in my two-cents before I ask the panel that, you know, on the new signal question, and my question might be, why would you want to?
But presuming there's good reasons why you might want to, I guess then the question is, could you?
So for the question I will turn to Michael first, replacement part and new signal installations, what your take would be and then I will turn to Tim
and ask the same question from the manufacturer's perspective, and again, because I'm moderate, you get my two-cents whether you want it or not.
I think eventually the manufacturers will stop making replacement parts and incandescent parted.
I think we are a ways away from that date but eventually the market will be so small that I don't think it westbound will be be worth their while to do that but I will let them answer that question.
Michael?
Thank you.
You have answered much of it already.
The replacement parts, whether or not it's the lens, the reflector, the bulb, what have you, can be continued to be manufactured and sold and installed.
There is certainly possible that somebody could take and assemble all the parts and manufacture locally a traffic signal module that would not meet the standards.
They would then become the manufacturer.
The proposed rule that we are working on, on the elements are the reporting requirements for manufacturers.
So if a local jurisdiction, a local entity it might just be somebody, small, independent contractor in a garage, assembling the parts and then shipping them to the local municipality.
If they are assembling it, they are the manufacturer and they would be required to certify compliance to D.O.E., to report for the department.
Are we going to go out and go through every utility, district, every state and county, and look at what they are buying what they are installing?
No, we don't have those resources.
But as the standard becomes better understood, as manufacturers are working with utilities and municipalities, as the municipalities are changing over,
I think the replacement parts are going to become less common, and for the most part our experience has been that the market takes care of itself.
Yeah, this is Tim O'Leary, and I would support both the comments and certainly the summary comment there, michael, the market takes care of itself.
As you see with the charts, you know, 86% of our volume has already moved to LED
We expect that staircase to continue through 2006, and would potentially be completed through 2007, certainly 2008.
To answer the specific question, would incandescent parts be available?
Yes, they are, as spare parts through our company and I believe through other manufacturers.
But as I think one of presenters pointed out, if it's a double-edged sword.
We have incandescent.
We built that up, anticipating a changeover in 2005, heading into 2006.
What might have been a one-year inventory, because more communities are moving over to it, available for two or three years until it's depleted
but we are not building caches of incandescent technology for those who are not moving over or meeting the transitions to LED technology.
I think the presenter had pointed out it would not be an alarmist situation today, that there's fog available out there but as time marches on,
it's difficult to get parts for kerosene lamps for intersection controls, incandescent will eventually move in the same direction.
Okay.
A couple of questions posted about life cycle.
The life cycles for LED modules and I will ask Emil and Tim on that as well.
Emil, I understood to you say that during your presentation you were basically adopting a five-year replacement cycle for LED modules if you could confirm that.
And then Tim, any advice from the industry?
Jeff, we are.
Five years.
Now, I guess as we get into yellows down the line, you know there's an element that maybe doesn't need to be a five-year replacement in some signals,
you know flasher beacons that are on every day or 24 hours a day or have more of a duty cycle, we need to sort through that.
But, you know, what we are trying to do here is maintain some semblance of a constant maintenance program.
We need to be able to manage it.
We need to not have some that are on a 13-year cycle and some that are on a four-year cycle.
We just can't plan our maintenance accordingly that way.
So we went into it thinking five years seems to be a reasonable number, based on what we know.
And we'll adjust accordingly from there if need be.
Now I don't know if they are still on the market or not, but there was at least one company that I know of that was talking about an LED Product that was -- I don't know if it was supposedly warrantied or guaranteed for 20 years
but there was some products out there that the name of the company actually escapes me but, you know, I think a lot of this is going to boil out to what turns out to be --
how long these things last, what the testing comes out to be, and, you know, what we are seeing for actual failure rates ind the like over time.
This is Tim O'Leary, and I would offer that as you can see from some of the charts of conversion to LED technology,
it's really an event that snow balled or really ramped up in the last five years so we are just starting to come to that useful life time frame to determine that five years is a reasonable warranty,
positive feedback there is we do not have any evidence that we have seen things failing at three and four years and most are surviving the five year and well beyond that.
So the five-year warranty, while not, you know, an industry standards, we are starting to see more and more RFPs for transition to LED, requesting five-year warranties and we are able to support that.
Now, again, I'm speaking as one company here, but the overall experience for most of the NEMA manufacturers is along the same line.
Okay, and one or two other and then we'll open the phones up.
There are a lot of questions, particularly early on in the webcast, probably while Michael was presenting relative to the I.T.E. specification and how that plays in all of this.
And again, I won't speak for Michael.
I will pose a question to him.
But, you know, I think that my reading of what's in the Energy Policy Act and sort of how it gets to the requirements that are established by referring to the EPA Energy Star program, and, you know,
kind of indirectly getting at the test procedures that are in the I.T.E. specs, I think that was an improper way of writing the statute, but, you know, at this point, it is what it is.
And I think we're just going to have to deal with the sequences of that relative to what the requirements now are in the statute and how other things like the I.T.E. specs relate to that.
Certainly there are a lot of things in the I.T.E. specs that aren't contained in this statute.
The statute really only covers the performance requirements for the equipment in terms of wattage, output, and then the EPA rule making adopted those requirements
and the upcoming EPA or D.O.E. -- I'm sorry, I'm used to saying EPA rule making, the D.O.E. rule making the cover the test procedures.
And as Michael indicated, I think there's some intent to try and do all of that in a sensible way that doesn't get sideways with what the statute says.
But in the end, we may not be able to perfectly harmonize what the I.T.E. spec says and what the statute says and watt law requires.
I would encourage folks that are listening in that are interested in those issues to say some close attention to the D.O.E. rule making when it comes out
because there will be an opportunity to comment on that when it does occur but I will let Michael react to those issues.
I think you captured it well, jeff, but the legislation, when you dig down into the Energy Star specification, the I.T.E. test method, it sets maximum wattage requirements at 74 degrees
and it's nominal wattage at 25 degrees and with that we have to look at the test procedure and pull out of that the requirements.
We do not have any requirements on lumens.
The legislation or the Energy Star doesn't have anything in that for amber, so as the I.T.E. spec is updated and uncovered other things beyond minimal or nominal wattage, we are not going to be picking those up.
We are looking at the 2005 I.T.E.
Spec as to how to measure wattage and if you can get the same measure of wattage using either test procedure, it is our preference to go with the more recent version.
We have had cases where we have referenced the industry standards we have incorporated them by reference.
The industry standard is updated and the update changes the test measurement, or changes what is measured is different.
We will not take and adopt a more recent industry standard, if you get a different result.
Because our regulation as to whether or not it's laid out in the legislation, or regulatory program, requires that a product meet a given efficiency level,
such as in this case a maximum wattage is 17-watts and if you got a module that under the old test, it comes in at 17 once
and under a new test, if it comes in at 19-watts, unacceptable, because you can't change the metrics.
It's like you can't go from inches to centimeters, and then do different rounding.
You have got to have the same basis because the manufacturer needs to understand what is required and they need to understand that there will be be some consistency here.
So in summary, we are looking at the 2005, with respect to how you measure wattage in order to see if we can pick up the 2005 I.T.E instead of 1985.
Okay, l last question and then we'll open up the -- and I will just look for a nod to Michael and see if I get this right.
The question was posed.
Is street lighting included in the Energy Policy Act?
And I think the answer to that question is yes, but we're not going to talk about that even if it is.
The street lighting had been included in a 1992, version of the legislation.
We have requirements to look at high intensity discharge lamps including sulfur lamps and other lights which are used in street lighting to evaluate them to determine whether or not to include them in the program.
That's one of the 22 actions that are on our backlog list.
Okay, how do we have an open mic period.
Colby, if we could open the phone lines for questions?
Yes, ma'am.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your touch tone phone.
If you would like to withdraw your question, press star two.
Please press star one to begin now.
As a reminder, for questioning, it is star one.
At this time, there are no questions appearing in queue.
Last chance, guys.
No questions have appeared yet.
Okay, well, I appreciate all of you logging in.
I do also want to extend a note of gratitude to the presenters for taking the time to be part of this discussion.
The presentation, several of you had asked about getting copies of presentation.
The presentations will be posted online as part of the NTOC website and information on the NTOC website has been posted during the discussion period as well.
Those will be posted shortly.
Within the next day or so.
And, again, I would like to thank everybody for participating.
If you do have other questions and concerns on this issue, I would encourage you to get in touch with your local federal highway administration office,
if that's someone would you are familiar with dealing with or contact our office here in headquarters as well, and we'll see if we can point you in the right direction.
One final note, I know I.T.E. did some pretty extensive marketing, as part of trying to get folks on to this webcast.
For those of you who might be at I.T.E.'s mid-year meeting in San Antonio next month, there will be a discussion session on this topic on the afternoon of March at 4:00 as part of that meeting in San Antonio.
So if you plan to be in San Antonio and want to talk about this topic, you have an opportunity there as well.
Thank you all.
Okay, thanks, Jeff for your help.
Bye.
Thanks, Jeff.
Thank you for your participation in today's conference.
This concludes the presentation, you may now disconnect -- good day.
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